Evolving sub-200 sq ft Cabin Shed

[waggin]

At the height of the real estate fiasco, I purchased this shy 12 acre piece on the west slope of the Cascades, east of Seattle.  Even as I was doing all the feasibility work, I knew the market was kind of dicey, and I factored in the possibility of a decline in value & told myself I'd be ok with it.  Affordable acreage (that's relative) around here is still scarce to this day.  It only has about 1 acre in the SE corner that's usable for building, and a large part of the rest is steep slope, about 40% or 22+ degrees.  I'm 25 miles east of the city, and I get 25 more inches of annual rainfall!  Seattle gets around 35" annually, so yes, it does get wet here.  Those numbers will probably boggle the minds of the CP desert dwellers.  For those w/a forestry interest, my site index for Douglas Fir is around 125, meaning that in 50 years,  a Doug Fir will grow about 125'.  Trees really like water and the long, sunny summer days we get.  The property was mostly logged in 1998, but they left a nice perimeter buffer, plus a small area of mature trees in the SE corner.

The plan is to build a 12' x 12' building that will be used to store trail building tools and to escape to for the occasional overnight.  Since I can have 200 square feet (aerial footprint) without getting a building permit.     Don't worry, I will be building this thing sturdy, as there is a 70# design snow load for the area.  Even though we don't usually have snow on the ground there all winter, when it snows, it can be heavy!

Access is from the east to the SE corner on a 650' easement.  There is about an acre that's mostly level in the SE corner of my lot.  The road below to the W/NW is over 200' below the building pad area, so I will be over 650' from any road.  I like my space   

Got topography?



Aerial view:



Level area in SE corner:



To help me in the process, I've got one of these: '92 W250 Club Cab w/5.9 Cummins, 5-speed...



...and half of one of these:



What else do I need?

[waggin]

Halfway in on the 650' easement, I pass a neighbor's barn.  The treeline straight ahead is the SE corner.  BTW, I never should have sold the '90 245 Volvo in the picture!    These folks have almost 100 acres overall, and they did a (TDR Transfer of Development Rights), so there will only be the potential for one house anywhere near my SE corner; that's it!



Entering property at SE corner:



Clearing looking east (see entry road on right):



View from top to SW.  I've already lost this view to tree growth, but I will be able to do some trimming under my forest plan.  On clear days, I can actually see the Olympic Mountains from here!



Next update will be the materials that I've rounded up so far, then I'll start asking a million questions to guide the design of the cabin shed.  So far I'm on the fence between a gable roof and a shed roof.  Once I put it on paper, I'll get an idea of the spaces and proportions.

[RainDog]

I'm green with envy. Lived on Queen Anne hill in Seattle back when I was going to school. I've lived in a bunch of places, but I'd be hard pressed to think of a climate better suited for my temperament generally. Relocated to Louisiana from there for work. Talk about culture shock!

Looking forward to hearing more about your project. Great area to be in. Good luck!

And goodnight.

Parks

[speedfunk]

Nice land.  As my septic engineer told us about our equally steep property.  

"you get more surface area for less total taxes"  

I felt this was insightful.  

[MountainDon]

Nice waggin. Is that the path in thru the trees at the right side of the second image, the image after the Volvo?




I'm a Red Green fan too! 

[waggin]

Thanks for the kind words.  It is a great area, and I hope to live out there one day.  After living in the 'burbs pretty much all my life, the thought of some actual space is exciting.  Even just going out to cut some trails or hang out is amazingly peaceful.  My existing house is on the market, but selling anything other than entry level houses to 1st time homebuyers is a tough go these days.  For now, I'm planning on the 12' x 12' cabin shed built on a skid foundation.  I'm going to build it stout, so it will be able to handle being dragged across uneven ground at some point.  Since I'm working with a tight building area, undoubtedly I'll have to be able to relocate my initial building at some point for driveway, house, shop, or utilities.

Raindog:  Even growing up in New England, I fell in love w/the Pacific NW.  Now I'm green with moss 

Speedfunk:  Funny, I saw a copy of the orthographic(?) map of my parcel; it looked a lot fatter on that map.  Speaking of septic, I'm either going to have to have one of the pressure distribution systems up top, or run about 450' downhill if I can find better soils for the drainfield.  Ughhh!  Since it's mostly unusable acreage, I put about 80% of the land into a current use program.  Once I finish my forest plan, it will cut out about 75% off the land portion of my tax bill.

MountainDon:  Yup, if you follow it to the right (NW) you end up in the clearing.  In the following picture, you are seeing the other end of the entry road/trail from the clearing.  It's on the right side of the picture. 

Thank you for the help and advice on photo editing; that was a huge time saver to do it as you recommended.  I just changed the others.  Keep your stick on the ice.

[John Raabe]

Looks like home to me...

Should be a great project.

[glenn kangiser]

Nice property.  I like steep hills - good for dugouts.

Good Dodge there too.  I had a 92 w/a Cummins - Gave it to my old buddy when I got my 99

Talked to a guy with the NEW 4500 Dodge cab and chassis.  He is not a happy camper with the new smog stuff.  Stick with the old ones.

[Yonderosa]

Great to see another "local" project underway.  Sounds like you've taken the Forest Stewardship program - I just got recently got my sign 

As for your design I would recommend doing a gable as it makes incorporating a loft easy.  That extra room is very nice when the space is limited.  Best of luck!  Looking forward to watching the progress.

[waggin]

Nice property.  I like steep hills - good for dugouts.

Good Dodge there too.  I had a 92 w/a Cummins - Gave it to my old buddy when I got my 99

Talked to a guy with the NEW 4500 Dodge cab and chassis.  He is not a happy camper with the new smog stuff.  Stick with the old ones.

Hmmm, a view platform on the side of a hill camouflaging the dugout underneath.  mwah-ha-ha-ha-ha!  Lots of ideas for how to do that and the possibilities.  I'm already joking with several of my friends about looking for a manual typewriter on Craigslist. 

I'm a big believer in the KISS theory when it comes to a vehicle that's going to see utility use, and the older 12v Cummins engines sure fit that bill.  It only has about 140k on it, so it's just a baby.  Sure, you can get a ton more comfort & power out of the newer ones, but I don't want to be beholden to super-expensive diagnostic equipment available only at the dealer (imagine that!) for every little complex system issue that pops up.  Not that I can do much w/even my 12v, but at least there are a lot of folks out there that CAN work on it.  I've done brakes, replaced rear ends, water pumps, and rebuilt 2bbl carburetors, but when I look under the hood of my Dodge, it's still at the level of yup, there's the engine and the turbo, wonder what the rest of that stuff is    Oh yeah, there's the 710!  One of these days, I'll learn where the Fetzer valve is and how to replace those muffler bearings 

Great to see another "local" project underway.  Sounds like you've taken the Forest Stewardship program - I just got recently got my sign 

As for your design I would recommend doing a gable as it makes incorporating a loft easy.  That extra room is very nice when the space is limited.  Best of luck!  Looking forward to watching the progress.

Ah, you recognized the forest stewardship lingo.  Did you take the classes over here for your eastside property or for your wetside property?  My forest plan isn't complete yet, but I did get most of my land into the PBRS (Public Benefit Rating System) classification for tax reduction starting next year.  I worked with Kristi McClelland, the King County Forester, to help me navigate the process after taking some classes through the county and WSU Extension.  Did you also take the 10-week class?  That was fascinating, and I learned a lot of really valuable info.  Kristi was and continues to be incredibly helpful.

After your saying you were local, I looked through your build thread.  You did some really cool things with yours, and I compliment you on the incredible craftsmanship.  The Murphy bed is a great idea for making use of limited space too.  I was really gung-ho for a shed roof until I saw a couple of threads with similar sized cabins with gable roofs and lofts, so my plans are already changing.

[Squirl]

200 sq ft aerial foot print?  I have seen people turn that into 600 sq ft of living.  Basement, 1st floor, 2nd floor, loft?

[MountainDon]

The big problem with that, from my perspective, is the amount of floor space lost to stairs. Ladders could be used, but not to code, nor to my own personal preference. Ladder only access also makes moving anything other than yourself in and out of the other levels something of a circus act. That's my opinion, others may have no problems, or YMMV.   

[Yonderosa]

Ah, you recognized the forest stewardship lingo.  Did you take the classes over here for your eastside property or for your wetside property?  My forest plan isn't complete yet, but I did get most of my land into the PBRS (Public Benefit Rating System) classification for tax reduction starting next year.  I worked with Kristi McClelland, the King County Forester, to help me navigate the process after taking some classes through the county and WSU Extension.  Did you also take the 10-week class?  That was fascinating, and I learned a lot of really valuable info.  Kristi was and continues to be incredibly helpful.

I did the classes on the Wet side and added the dry side field trips.  I found it quite helpful too and have remained in contact with the foresters and the biologist.  Great bunch of guys. 

Using a pull down attic stair solves the space issues with stairs/ladders.  The big advantage to the loft is the reduction of clutter making it a more useful multi-purpose (living, dining, kitchen, bedroom...) space.

[MountainDon]

Using a pull down attic stair solves the space issues with stairs/ladders. 

I love our Memphis Folding Stairs access to the attic in our suburban home.  It makes access to the storage attic above the garage much simpler as the ladder is always there.

It is a ladder even though they call it "stairs". It's less than 24 inches wide though and that makes moving anything large up or down a chore. I think they are wonderful for occasional access to a storage area, but not for a sleeping area. At least not for me. They work well for access in the up direction but won't do a thing for you if you want to go down to a basement. And if you are in the "up" area you can't close the stairs and get them out of the way in the lower area. So my personal opinion is they are great for storage access, but that's about all.

[waggin]

Time to get started!  I still haven't completely made up my mind on shed vs. gable roof, but I will need to do that soon.

If I'm building something like Wendigo's 12'x12' w/loft ( http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=7712.0 ), what am I looking at requiring for dimensions on the skids for something not supported by piers?  This thing will likely be moved at some point, so I need to have stout skids, have the floor joists well attached, and it will need to be stout enough to not rack & screw up windows/doors, etc.  Has anyone else built a skid frame like this before?  Another option is to get some steel beams for skids, but I see that as being more expensive & time consuming to cut angles on the ends, drill holes, attach plates, etc.  The concept is to either put it on a gravel bed, or putting it on pier blocks of some sort.  If I used pier blocks, my thought is to dig down about a foot, put some gravel in, then set/level the blocks.  Am I thinking properly so far?  Input on skid sizes/materials/fastening, etc. would be much appreciated.

So far, by looking at the above thread and the "Modern Manshed" thread, I'm thinking 12' long 2"x8" floor joists spanning 10' between skid centerlines.  That provides a 1' (less 1/2 of skid width) overhang on each end of the joists.  Decking will be 3/4" T&G plywood; walls will be 2"x4" studs, likely 8' long for gable roof & longer/taller if shed roof.  Speaking of roofing, I picked up some heavy guage metal/simulated tile roofing.  It was $200 for about 360 sq ft, plus I got a small battery powered portable toilet as part of the deal.  Sorry, no picture of the toilet    That's more than enough roofing for the shed/cabin, plus a well house down the road.



Am I on the right track?

[Pine Cone]

Howdy!

Let me know when you're looking west and I'll stand on top of my cabin and wave

Looks more than a bit steep in places, but it appears to have some flatter areas on top, which should translate into great views.

I would investigate the exact rules and regulations for your sub-200 square feet structure, but there are probably limits on average or total wall height.  The state's/county's way of keeping you from building a loft in a structure without a permit.  That said, why stop at 12x12=144 square feet when you could go for 11x16=196 square feet, or my cabin size, 14x14=196 square feet.  Not much harder or more expensive to build it a tiny bit larger, but lots more room inside!

I build my outhouse/shed (4'x8') on skids and plan on building a larger 8'x12' or 12'x12' storage shed next summer, also on skids.  One of the things I learned building my log cabin is the power of rolly things.

Rollers made of small trees or metal pipe move things MUCH!!! better than any other method.  Those pyramid builders had it figured out 4000 years ago, and if you have to do it today or next year, skids plus rollers work many-many-many times better than skids alone.  My wife and I moved this stack of logs once (downhill), and my son and I moved it a second time back uphill.  I moved about half of them back downhill a third time to build my cabin.  It would not have happened without rollers or wheels.  Skids+rollers will be much easier that skids alone, and all you have to do is cut down some alders or small Doug-fir to make rollers... I like using Harbor Freight chain hoists to help move things around as well, either up-and-down or horizontally.  Much better than cheap come-alongs.  I also built a log/timber cart with 26" bicycle wheels which will easily move 500+ pounds.  It saved our backs and project many times over. 



Our cabin project was done with a minimal use of big powerful machines.  No backhoe, no Bobcat's, no tractors.  I did hire a logger with a self-loading truck to get my logs delivered, and I did hire a friend with a self-loading dump truck to get rid of a few tons of stumps left by the previous owner.  Other than that I hired a stump grinder and a trencher from our local rent-a-tool place and the rest was done pretty much by me and my (play-the-impressive-heroine-music) wife.  She was a trooper and I could not have done it without her!

If you don't already have a chainsaw, buy a Husky or a Stihl with a 18"+ bar and call it good.  You really will need it, many times over.  I have a Husky 359 and it has worked well!

Good luck with your project.  If you want to see what I have done in person just drop me a note and I'll be happy to show you around my place in Jefferson Co.

[poppy]

Good find on the roofing.  That's one thing that I haven't found a deal on yet.

[waggin]

Pine Cone:
I have been reading your thread enthusiastically since you began posting and wondered where you were located.  I think at some point you mentioned Chimicum?  I absolutely love what you've done with your place and may take you up on the offer of a tour sometime.  Are you usually up there on weekends only or sometimes during the week?  A buddy of mine lives in Kingston & is building a house there, so I do get over to that side of the pond from time to time. 

I chose 12'x12' for several reasons.  The county literature online says 200 square feet max but doesn't define how it's calculated.  When I asked, the folks that regulate said that it was aerial footprint.  Since I like roof overhangs, 12'x12' with a 1' overhang keeps me just under the limit.  Someday I may build a real house there, and I want to stay on everybody's good side, at least until everything is signed off anyway    This size is also manageable with limited help and works well with standard building material multiples.

Thanks for the roller tips!  Last year I bought a More Power Puller: http://www.wyeth-scott.com/
Now that's a real come-along!  I tend not to trust Harbor Freight stuff when my life and/or eyesight is on the line.  I would use their chain hoist though.  The bike wheel cart is another tip I like.

Poppy:
I think that's the ONLY thing you haven't found a good deal on yet!  Your resourcefulness always impresses me.

[Pine Cone]

I'm at my cabin mostly on the weekends, but I work in Poulsbo, not too far from Kingston,  and it is only about a 40 minute drive (each way) from there.  Let me know when you want to go and we'll work something out.  If the weather is dry I will often take off an afternoon to work on cabin projects that prefer dry weather.

That's one stout-looking come-a-long!

[Pritch]

Looks like fun, Waggin!  There sure are a lot of us Washingtonians here.  that's a great piece of property and looks like you'll get a whole lot of privacy for the size.  

Before you settle on the 12X12 dimension, I would verify the "aerial view" measurement method.  Simply because one inspector interprets the reg that way doesn't necessarily make it so.  

Edited to add: Waggin, if you don't mind, where is your land?  Although I'm in Kent now I lived in North Bend for several years.  I'm still looking for my little piece of heaven. 

[waggin]

Pritch:

My place is right over by Snoqualmie Falls, but I live in Federal Way currently.  North Bend is a great area; I bet you miss it compared to Kent. 

Another reason I want to do the 12'x12' is ease of construction with (mostly) one person and not getting crazy with materials.  If I end up building a real house out there, it's going to have a large shop, so extra buildings will be extra stuff that has to be maintained.  I'll print my page from the county site again, but IIRC, the 200 square feet wasn't defined.  It was in person that one of the DDES folks gave me the "aerial footprint" qualification.  If I choose to go larger, the website printout will be in my files to show in case of a dispute, trust me. 

Where are you considering for your escape place?

[Pritch]

Its funny.  We had a large track house in a suburban development.  It didn't feel like we were very rural.  We sold that place and bought a townhouse in teh city, but sit over a protected wetland area by the river and it feels like we're out in the woods!   

As far as where we're thinking, well, land isn't on the top of the priority list right now.  We're working to become debt free and want to adopt.  Then, hopefully some wooded property.   Even though this state tends to tax everything that moves, and mandates transport of those things that don't; we love the lush woods and hot & cold running elk!  Most property within a "weekendable" drive of Seattle is prohibitively expensive, so we may end up looking over toward Newprt, or over the border into northern Idaho.  (This would be a really hard sell as my wife is a bear magnet, and is terrified of Griz!

[waggin]

Giving serious thought to steel I-beams for the skids now.  There are some options on Craigslist locally that I'm going to call the sellers.  At least one of them says they will cut, so maybe I can get them to cut angles on the ends for me.  If I go this route, my thought is to drill holes along the top of the I-beam, and put a pressure treated 2x (whatever the flange width is) along the surface.  Then the floor joists would be on top of that, running perpendicular.  Sound reasonable?

Pritch:  Hope your townhome stays high & dry.  Are you in a danger area if they have to release water from the Howard Hanson dam?

[Pritch]

Pritch:  Hope your townhome stays high & dry.  Are you in a danger area if they have to release water from the Howard Hanson dam?

It looks like we're high enough to avoid flooding, but could still have to deal with sewer backup and disruption of water/power/etc.  DW's work is on the valley floor so that could be interesting. 

[Solar Burrito]

Any updates on your project? I'm very interested. I live in Seattle and am building a small cabin this spring near Lake Cushman and Hoodsport, WA.

This is what I'm going to build: