Author Topic: metal building, weekend cabin  (Read 35857 times)

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Offline mikkelibob

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metal building, weekend cabin
« on: January 19, 2009, 12:37:47 PM »
Jim kindly has mentioned "Postings here are NOT limited to projects built with our plans." This is fortunate, because what I'm about to build is gonna be ugly compared to the works of beauty on here. Unfortunately at this time we are on a pretty substantial time & money budget. Down the line we hope to building something more aestheticly pleasing. This won't be our retirement home (at least I hope not!). In the mean time, the project is a metal building. Quick and dirty.

The location: We have about 35 acres in the Texas hill country. Utilities are nearish, but electricity is probably around $3k, and a well is probably $4k (probably ~300 ft). The property is pretty well wooded, at least in a central Texas way. A creek running through a portion of it. The creek is very heavily wooded with some really great pecans and oaks. As for actual water, its a wet weather only thing. We have a clearing surrounded by some great shin oak motts, a pioneer pecan, and of course some evil cedar. Our budget is about $12k at the outset. We are hoping to spend about that much to dry in & insulate.

The plan: At the moment the idea is to erect a 20x30 metal building with a 10' eave on a slab. One long side will have an additional covered patio. We're designing it so that in the future it could be expanded (i.e. a framed out opening along a gabled side), although that's probably not going to happen anytime soon. We've looked at a lot of the DIY kits, but we have found a local rancher guy who has built a few "hunting cabins" on his spread to lure rich Dallas-ites.

The specs: The main construction is 4x4 square tubes and 2x6 cee purlins. The roof will be u-panel galvalume steel, and the sides will be the baked paint u-panels. Once the structure is up and the panels on, the rest of the labor will be our own. Inside we will frame out with either 2x4 or 2x6, so that we can hang drywall and frame up rooms. Directly onto the steel siding we will get icyene foam sprayed on. We are considering 2 or 3" of foam, and then possible either pink fiberglass, or rigid foam. Once its up and the insulation is in, the building is more or less habitable, if only just one large great room. Since current "home" at the ranch is an ancient shasta bumper pull trailer, even that is a win. The final finish out is still being discussed. Currently plans are for a "bathroom". We don't intend to have a septic system set up, but we do hope to put in the proper plumbing connection should we decide to add that later. Initially the bathroom will be room for a shower and a wag bag facility (i.e. our toilet). We may eventually put in a composting toilet if the septic regs or costs are too much. Two very small bedrooms for privacy will be framed up (probably 10x10). Just enough room for a double bed and a trunk. We spend most of our time outside, the bedrooms are just for the bunks.

Concerns: condensation and shifting foundations. My major concern is metal condensation. Fortunately the soil we are building on doesn't seem to have much clay, so I'm not all that concerned about a shifting foundation. We're in a pretty major drought, and I just don't see any cracks in the soil, whereas cracks can swallow small children east of here. I'm somewhat concerned about mice and carpenter ants eating the spray insulation, just to spite me.

For water: we intend to put a gutter on at least half the building, and collect rainwater. Since our primary usage is weekend getaways, the capacity won't be much of an issue. We've done okay hauling 5 gallon containers so far, so I'm not too worried. Plus we're friendly with the neighbors and have borrowed a garden hose from time to time. Probably just a 300 gallon cistern. We will pour a seperate slab for this at the time the foundation is poured.

For electricity: we have a honda e2000 generator. Enough for a small window unit in a single bedroom, but not enough to cool the place. We will wire for 120v for the future, but I'm considering also wiring for 12v in case we just go with a small solar panel, a marine battery,a few LED lights, and a water pump.

For heat: honestly not much an issue most of the year. The few cold nights we probably won't venture forth from the big city. I would like to get a small wood stove at some point, so to that end we will probably put in cement backboard and tile the floor in an area so that we're safe when we do find a good deal on craigslist.

Plans are still being drafted, but we hope to "break ground" in the near future. Stay tuned. I hope to share cost information and post lots of pictures.

a few questions:
1. Is concrete treated with anti-hydro mean you can go without a vapor barrier under the slab? Or is that marketing hype?
2. To prevent sweat problems, is it necessary to do spray foam on the walls, or is vinyl backed insulation good enough? We will definitely go with the spray foam on the roof.

Offline river place

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Re: metal building, weekend cabin
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2009, 03:15:12 PM »
We're from DFW TX but building in AR.

Because of time constraints we decided to build a pole barn first as this gave us storage and a place to work from when we build the actual house.  At the end of the pole barn we are putting in a 10x10 bathroom area and a 20x10 den which will be heated and cooled along with being insulated.

We had a company called National Barn build a 30x40 barn with 3 big doors for air flow and a regular 3.0 door for entry.  The barn has 12 foot walls and we had them install an insulation barrier under the metal roofing and have not seen any signs of condensation this year.  The barn cost 10K erected on our site.  We then had a 6 inch concrete slab poured for 4K inside the barn.  We plan on using 4x8 sheets of foam/foil sided panel in the walls for insulation.  The bathroom and den area will also have additional insulation in the walls when I build them.  Our house when we build it will have spray in foam.

Offline mikkelibob

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Re: metal building, weekend cabin
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2009, 04:32:31 PM »
Sounds like a plan! Can you explain the insulation material used on the ceiling/roof? Was it foil backed pink insulation (or vinyl backed, something else entirely, etc). Spray in foam is kinda pricey. My estimate for 3" icyene is $1.20 a board foot, so that's pretty much $2k right there. I'm not sure if they can spray in "thinner". I just want to be sure I don't get any mold issues later on.

behind this table is the clearing which we are planning to build. Of course I don't have a picture of the actual location, that would be too easy.


"front yard" view:

Offline muldoon

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Re: metal building, weekend cabin
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2009, 05:04:16 PM »
there are quite a few people pursuing this, and I looked at it quite a bit myself.  I still have not ruled it out in the longer view. 

the term I have had the best luck googling is barndominium. 

I particularly was inspired by this guy - I even emailed him back and forth a few times with questions. 
http://www.redstone-tech.com/ranch/cabin_construction.htm


a few other links - really there are tons of this from google search.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=barndominium


http://www.reichardtconstruction.com/barndo.asp

http://barndominium.vevco.com/anatomy/index.php

http://www.paperthreads.com/blog/shirleysdesigns/index.php?itemid=31


Offline mikkelibob

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Re: metal building, weekend cabin
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2009, 05:55:36 PM »
Jackpot! In all my googling I had never come across the term "barndominium"! But that's definitely what I had in mind.

Offline glenn kangiser

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Re: metal building, weekend cabin
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2009, 06:17:13 AM »
mikkelibob, sorry I didn't see this sooner.

Been busy.

I have built a lot of steel buildings and I would say even a thin coat of Icynene on the ceiling will stop near all of your condensation problems.  Not much likely on the walls but standard fiberglass with the vapor barrier inside should take care of that.  A cheaper alternative would be 2" UL Vinyl sandwitched between the purlins and sheeting.  You will lose a bit of insulation value at the purlin pinch point but it would likely stop most all condensation also.  then Icynene would be superior sprayed on the roof purlins also.  Dripping from the ceiling can be a problem without the insulation.  On the walls it is not much problem.

My buddy, Okie BoB loves Icynene. :)
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Offline river place

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Re: metal building, weekend cabin
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2009, 06:25:35 AM »
As mentioned the roof is where the condensation problem will exist.  On my barn roof they used a roll out type insulation.  We also went with a galvanized silver finish on the roof metal to reflect as much heat as possible.  I'm using the board type foam insulation on the walls to reduce the amount of heat radiated into the barn and this is something I can do myself and over time.

I went with 12ft walls to keep the heat high up and also allow for building the living area and still have storage room on top.

For the small living area I will stick build the enclosure and use common fiberglass as the price has dropped quite a bit with the slow down in housing.

Offline travcojim

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Re: metal building, weekend cabin
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2009, 07:45:48 AM »
Back a few months ago when we were looking at what we were going to do on our land here in Arkansas we talked to a man in Missouri that builds steel cabins, and then puts slab siding on the exterior, looks very nice,  His price for a 24x40, if we had the foundation down, either slab or post and beam, he does the complete structure, it was $4900,  thats not with the slab exterior, but that is in the dry with a front door and 3 windows,  extra windows run about $100 each.  His display house had waferboard on the interior and it was rather warm in there on a very cold day.
  But the price was not bad.  Of course add another 1500 for the foundation, its still not a bad deal, And it goes up in 2 days, 

Offline mikkelibob

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Re: metal building, weekend cabin
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2009, 12:18:53 PM »
Pole barns were discussed. When it comes to bargains and $/sqft., I think they definitely take the cake. We're going with a welded up steel building, on the theory that termites and grass fires aren't uncommon dangers these parts. For whatever reason there are a multitude of metal building outfits all over, but fewer outright pole barn folks. Maybe its a regional thing?

Interesting to hear that we may only need the spray insulation on the roof. I'm not sure if the contractor will want to drive up all that way for such a smallish job, but it can't hurt to ask. After looking more into the barndominiums, it appears a great money of they just have a portion of a much larger barn made into living quarters. This will definitely be 100% insulated living space, although we may spring extra for a very large area to be used as a covered patio. I suppose at some point we could enclose the patio and use it as true garage/barn storage.

I've noticed that some of the metal buildings have continuous roofs, basically a big seamless curve. That certainly has merit, as there are few/no places to leak. We will probably do a peaked roof. One because that's what we've spec'd out, and two because I'm somewhat dubious about the ability to patch or re-roof a continuous curve. Some googling has indicated its possible to put new purlins over an existing roof, and put new panels on top. They even make special re-roofing purlins that fit in the u-patter of the panels.

Offline river place

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Re: metal building, weekend cabin
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2009, 09:05:20 AM »
We looked into the wleded and bolted steel buildings also.  In the end we went with Nationl Barn because of their reputation and the fact that I didn't need to be there often (sign off for supply shipment and signoff for build completion.  Their central office is in OK but they build everywhere.

To reduce the fire risk we put down gravel 12 to 15ft out from the barn.

I would have preferred steel except most required a parameter foundation be built first which ment more supervision from me.  The foundation and cost to erect was quite a bit more.  Steel should last a very long time. 

The pole barn went up fast, no crane needed, put the posts into the ground with 80lb concrete mix per hole, the barn has a treated board at the bottom of siding that allows a slab to be poured later.  To increase the life of pole barn poles, they can put sleeves on they at an addtional cost.

Offline mikkelibob

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Re: metal building, weekend cabin
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2009, 06:45:36 AM »
We now have more or less "plans". Its going to be basically a 30x30, with 10x30 of it as a dedicated big ole porch. Bedrooms are very small, but we are modeling them on RV sizes to keep a more reasonably sized living area for rainy days.


Offline Windpower

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Re: metal building, weekend cabin
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2009, 07:06:10 AM »
Don't know how I missed this one

This is exactly (well pretty close) to our plans

We have a 40 X 80 pole barn that we are going to convert to an 'apartment'

40 X 40 living space with post and beam

40 X 40 dream shop with poured concrete floor

I love it "barndominium"

This forum is a gem -- I really am enjoying this and learning a  lot

later, I have to go fix a sick Gas Chromatograph
Often, our ignorance is not as great as our reluctance to act on what we know.

Offline mikkelibob

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Re: metal building, weekend cabin
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2009, 07:28:12 AM »
more or less staked out. When we do a slab, it will be professionally formed up.

Offline mikkelibob

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Re: metal building, weekend cabin
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2009, 02:07:03 PM »
got the slab in this week, about 10 yards:


Offline ScottA

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Re: metal building, weekend cabin
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2009, 04:42:09 PM »
Slab looks great. No plumbing?

Offline mikkelibob

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Re: metal building, weekend cabin
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2009, 08:27:20 PM »
The pictures kinda cuts off the left corner. It has a connection for a toilet, a shower, a bathroom sink and a kitchen sink.

The rebar to the right is so we can tie it into a thinner slab that will be a front porch the length on the long side.

Offline muldoon

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Re: metal building, weekend cabin
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2009, 10:19:54 PM »
Bob,

Looks good.  I'd be interested in seeing a picture of the plumbing rough-outs you have if you have one.  I also am in Texas hill country (Fayette county tho).  Can you tell me who you used for the slab?  Are they involved in the metal building or separate? 

Offline mikkelibob

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Re: metal building, weekend cabin
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2009, 02:52:17 PM »
Ha, I just went through the dozen or so pictures, and of course I don't have a good close up of the rough ins. We got the concrete out of Lampasas. We did the clearing, leveling, rebar, rough ins and forms ourselves. We ordered the concrete with a no-sweat additive, and a fiber that's supposed to help with strength. All in all it went really easy, although the cement truck left some nasty ruts in the dirt.

We are building this thing with the help of an old rancher guy in the area. For lack of a better term, he's our general contractor. He's put up a couple cabins of similar design for his hunting lessees, and we were impressed with the workmanship. I had been kicking around the idea of a metal building as a cabin, and he were chatting over some gate work and he mentioned he had done exactly that, so we checked them out.. Like any rural area, its good to know the locals and be on good terms with folks. He's going to come in and do the welding when its time, while I spot and spray the errant sparks (massive drought in the area necessitates a two man crew). Next step is to put in the 4x4 metal posts, starting with the ones that are on the edge of the patio. The main cabin and the patio would have been too much concrete for us to do one pour, so we will come back and do that pour last. We're hoping to have the shell up over the next couple of months.

Offline mikkelibob

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Re: metal building, weekend cabin
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2009, 07:41:46 PM »
left side:

right side:

So far, this is what we've got. First stringer up at 3'. Still need to a stringer at 7' up, and the top beam on the porch side. Have another few more purlins to be put up. The windows we found on clearance at Home Depot, and will be put up pretty soon (or at least frame out the windows). You can see the concrete pad we poured in case we end up doing rainwater collection. Hopefully over the next month we'll get the roof on, and maybe the sides, too.

Offline glenn kangiser

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Re: metal building, weekend cabin
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2009, 08:58:19 AM »
Looks good.  I have built around 300 of these - pre-engineered as well as add ons I designed.

I forget if it was mentioned but you can get fiberglass insulation of 2" or so with a white vinyl covering that just sandwiches between the purlins and sheeting.  It takes care of condensation issues even though it is pinched at the purlins.  I used to get White  2" UL Vinyl covered fiberglass.
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Offline waterbug

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Re: metal building, weekend cabin
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2009, 12:20:45 PM »
mikkelibob,

Thank you for the update and pictures. I have been trying to convince my wife that we should go the metal frame route for a while. Hopefully this will help her see the possibilities.

Offline mikkelibob

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Re: metal building, weekend cabin
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2009, 08:07:12 AM »
we've got windows!
front

front (from front right corner)

left side (bathroom side)

right side:

  • a lil one hanging off the 7' stringer for the bathroom
  • two 3x4s right of the main entrance door and a 3x4 on the left of the main door
  • two 3x4s right of the main entrance door and a 2x3 on the left of the main door
  • plus the front and back doors have windows
Still to do is the 7' stringer on half the back (to the left of the backdoor), and a smaller 2x3 window there for the "kitchen". Other than that, we're almost up to putting on the roof and sides. Hopefully by the end of June we'll be dried in.

Offline Bishopknight

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Re: metal building, weekend cabin
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2009, 06:05:38 PM »
Wow very cool. Its great to see so many different kinds of projects on this website!  ;D

Offline mikkelibob

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Re: metal building, weekend cabin
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2009, 12:39:12 PM »
progress continues.... slowly. Stringers up, doors on, all the windows in.

Hope to have most or all of the roof on by the end of this coming weekend. The shade at that point will be greatly appreciated! Should take long after that to do a coat or two of concrete sealer and put up the tin for the walls.

Offline Redoverfarm

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Re: metal building, weekend cabin
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2009, 12:58:19 PM »
What is the roof pitch 3-4/12 and the shed doesn't look quite that much either.  Does move a little faster than wood frame until you get to the inside.