Author Topic: Metal Roof Questions  (Read 10624 times)

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Offline Jimmy C.

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Metal Roof Questions
« on: May 04, 2006, 12:34:11 PM »
I am having trouble finding any info on metal roofing. THe Home Depot guy was at a loss. He said he could order it for me from a book he had on the desk, but he could not tell me what kind I needed for my application..

I have 24 in centers on my rafters, Do I get a 24" wide sheet or 36".

What type of structure do you need under it?
I am thinking about blocking in between the rafters every 24"
And not using a plywood decking. I am told this is a standard way to install.

PLease help me out with any info.


« Last Edit: May 04, 2006, 12:42:15 PM by Jimmy_Cason »
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Offline MikeT

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Re: Metal Roof Questions
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2006, 01:25:25 PM »
Jimmy, I am no where near where you are on your project.  I haven't broken gorund yet.  But I have explored this issue a little bit and what I have discovered up to this point has me rethinking about metal roofs.  

My neighbor across the street basically talked me out of it, at least of a DIY job.  He is a roofing representative (reps for a number of different manufacturers).  In his opinion most all DIY roofing is little more than painted barn metal.  He feels that they don't have the lifespan that they are purported to have.  For my situation (Oregon coast and wanting to Do It Yourself), he recommended Malarkey shinges with a 80 or 100 mph rated and of course fire rated.  He felt that by the time you spnd the money on a professional install on a quality roof, you are in a situation where you may never be able to recover the cost compared with a good quality asphalt shingle.  

Now that was one person's opinion, but the comment about the DIY metal roofing has me re-examining my plans.


Offline scottb

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Re: Metal Roof Questions
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2006, 02:11:50 PM »
our metal building (metal roof) and wood stable (asphalt shingle) were built in 1985. Metal roof is fine, the shingled roof was repaired in the 90's from wind damage and I shingled over last year. And today they use screws for metal roofs so more resilient. I would put osb underlayment for sound. A metal roof vents itself so insulation can go up to underlayment. I see trees (leaves) above roof, incorporate a gutter guard over raingutters--never clean them out.

Offline Dustin

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Re: Metal Roof Questions
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2006, 02:37:20 PM »
I'm doing a metal roof for my house. I would imagine you would want to use plywood or OSB decking (I'm using T&G pine decking), tarpaper or Tyvek (or both), and a few inches of foam insulation.
The system FirstDay uses is 29 Gauge Perma-Clad from American Building Components (www.abcmetalroofing.com). Available in 29 or 26 gauge standing seam.
I have talked to people who have done it themselves and the install isn't that difficult.




Offline Robert_Flowers

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Re: Metal Roof Questions
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2006, 03:10:29 PM »
Jimmy,
You can use blocking 2 feet on center or soild decking (plywood,osb).

Try this site http://www.unioncorrugating.com/index.shtml





They sale Advantage-Lok that looks like old standing seam roof, Master rib that you see on stores and 5-V and Corrugated that you see on barns. And they have 17 colors and come in 29 or 26 gauge get the the 26 if you can.

 You can download Installation Details from this page.
 http://www.unioncorrugating.com/pages/installation.html

Hope this helps.

robert

Offline JRR

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Re: Metal Roof Questions
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2006, 04:52:56 PM »
Before I actually ordered any metal roofing material, I called directly to the "customer relations" person of the manufacturer.  I asked for, and was sent, a sample of two 1 foot-long scrap cuttings of the style/color metal I was interested in.

These scrap pieces were very valuable for laying out the roof.  For instance, by nesting them together it was found that the width "coverage" was actually 21 1/2" ... not the nominal 22" as the literature promises ... makes quite a difference over a 24' long roof.  
Also a jig was made from one piece for drilling pilot holes for the screws.  This same piece is used for accurately laying down a bed of poly sealer daubs on the purlins.

BTW, as a DIY'er I'm actually enjoying installing the metal roof.  Probably doing a better job than if I were using regular shingles ... and taking enough time and care so that it may be turning out better than if done by some "pro's".  

The idea of laying the metal on daubs of sealer is working out well.  The poly is put in place and then the metal rolled over in place.  Only three/four  pieces are installed per day ( a pro couldn't do this) and the poly allowed to cure before screws are installed (this helps keep the metal very distortion free).  Of course, you try to have the purlins as perfect and "flat" as possible ... the poly bed just helps even out the bumps/imperfections.  I believe the poly bed dampens noise quite a bit too.  A jerry-rig of clamps and 2x's, along with stacks of cedar taper-shims is used to keep the metal from going wind sailing during the curing period.

(Some day I'm gonna learn how to post photos!)
« Last Edit: May 04, 2006, 05:35:19 PM by JRR »

Offline Yetanothermike

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Re: Metal Roof Questions
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2006, 09:53:44 PM »

Jimmy,

Here are two considerations I discovered as I looked into metal roofs, one positive and one negative:

1) a metal roof will quickly shed heat at night while a a shingle or asphalt roof will retain it.  This is a plus in a hot climate such as Texas.  It's kind of "thermal anti-mass."   ;)

2) some county zoning rules (e.g. mine) will not allow a metal roof unless it is an "architectural metal roof sheething with factory applied color coatings."   You may want to research whether your local government requlates aesthetics before you install any metal that looks like metal.

Good luck,

-Mike


Offline glenn kangiser

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Re: Metal Roof Questions
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2006, 10:12:40 PM »
My parents put a metal roof on their house and are happy with it.  

I have built about 300 metal buildings using 26 gauge sheeting with purlins (steel) on appx 48" centers.  I started in 1976.  None have failed to date.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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Offline Billy Bob

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Re: Metal Roof Questions
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2006, 05:24:01 AM »
Mike, I expect among the lines your neighbor represents he does not have a metal roofing firm.  Nothing against him at all, but salesfolks tend to buy the "party line" before they can be successful at selling the product.  
I have only done two metal roofs so far, one on a lumber shed, and a porch I built for my mother.
So far so good, ( the lumber shed is 23 years old.)  The barn roof at the old family farm is eighty something years old,( I did NOT install that one), and while getting pretty rusty, still keeps MOST of the rain out.  Since the government now owns it, I am not planning on repairing it! [smiley=sad.gif]
I had planned on using a metal system, but now am looking at light weight concrete tiles, mostly for appearance sake.  Some systems are designed so that the tiles hook over spaced purlins, and have interlocking edges.  (They have hold down clips available for high wind areas.)
Anyway, even for a pro there's always that first roof, and if you want a metal roof, why not?
Good luck!
Bill

Offline DemianJ

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Union 5V Roofing
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2006, 05:56:07 AM »
Jimmy,

I've hired someone to install 5V metal roofing (29 gauge, galvalume coated, 24" wide in evergreen) for me b/c I didn't have the safety equipment to work on a slick 9/12 roof 3 stories up.  It's affordable, has a 25 year warranty, and is supposed to be easy to install.  We ended up putting plywood and tar paper down underneath and then running horizontal 2" furring strips to allow some air flow behind the roof (a simplier "cold roof" design, the full version I've seen described as having horizonatal and vertical furring strips under the roof; it also gives the roofers something to walk along).  The only person I've heard say anything negative about 5V was someone who installs traditional standing seam roofs (very expensive), who said he wouldn't install 5V, but if he did, make sure you use the rubber washered screws and not nails.  Oh, and this may be obvious to many, but make sure there's a drip edge included with the roofing package (I didn't, which delayed the roof by a few weeks).

http://www.unioncorrugating.com/pages/5v.html
« Last Edit: May 05, 2006, 08:49:18 AM by DemianJ »

Offline Jimmy C.

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Re: Metal Roof Questions
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2006, 06:16:52 AM »
Wow, Thanks everyone!

Thinking......Thinking........ Thinking..........
The hardest part is getting past the mental blocks about what you are capable of doing.
Cason 2-Story Project MY PROGRESS PHOTOS

Offline glenn kangiser

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Re: Metal Roof Questions
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2006, 06:28:00 AM »
All of the conventional steel roofing I have used on steel buildings is 3 feet wide.  The sheeting Demian posted does look nice - not so much like a steel shop building.

He is right about the screws - neoprene washers on TEK screws.  The washers should just come out even with the edge of the screw head when compressed properly.  - past the top metal washer and they are too tight - but I wouldn't have a coronary over it if it happened in a few places.  Ryobi makes an economical clutch drill that will install the screws fine without you having to give your right ---   leg to get it.  About $40 at HD and they sell the different size magnetic drivers also-- usually 5/16.

If you like the look of metal I would say do it without fear.  Holes can be pre-drilled on the ground in the stack if you do a careful layout and have made your purlins consistent  on the roof.  This is a lot easier than trying to deal with starting a screw hole in the metal on a steep roof.  Remember that if you miss you have a hole to patch though.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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Offline Mark_Chenail

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Re: Metal Roof Questions
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2006, 08:35:26 AM »
Just got back from a week at my Missouri place putting on plain old galvanized roofing on last bit of my house.  Our rafters, like yours are on 2 foot centers.
We put 2x4 purlins across the rafters at 2' center spacing and screwed the metal sheets to the purlins.  It was easy to do and would have been easier if we had had a couple of good long ladders.  The metal is slick especially on a steep pitch and requires some care but certainly isnt too difficult for most DIYers.  
Right after we finished we got a good hard rain and no leaks that we could find.
Ive had metal on the other part of the house now for 5 years with absolutely no leaks.  Noise was a factor until we got ceilings and insulation up but that took care of it.  I really like metal roofs and they are very popular in our neck of the woods for new construction and reroofs.   Will post some pics when we get them back. :)
mark chenail

Offline MikeT

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Re: Metal Roof Questions
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2006, 09:15:07 AM »
To defend my neighbor a bit, he was giving me his opinion knowing that my project is located on a hillside on the Oregon Coast: high wind and often wet, wet conditions, not to mention saltwater.  I haven't ruled out metal roofs, but it has me looking for more information.  In my plans, I stated it will be either a metal roof or 3 tab shingles with the needed ratings.

mt

Offline Amanda_931

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Re: Metal Roof Questions
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2006, 10:29:01 AM »
Guy who built the pole barn put the roof on himself, although he did say that getting someone to do it would have been a whole lot faster--maybe too fast to find someone who wanted to do it.  People who do nothing but metal roofs are FAST with it.  And they don't give themselves black eyes or concussions doing it either.  

Gal who sometimes cuts my hair really loves my black eye story.  I didn't notice it because it didn't show up for a couple of days, started getting weird looks from people.  Finally, quite accidentally looked in the mirror, and ohmygosh two black eyes--from a fall where I hit my head back of an ear.   ::)  (those of us with no running water tend to look in mirrors less)

Rumor is don't buy your roofing from the big box guys.  Especially not off the rack.  Almost impossible for the pieces to stay whole and un-bent.  Might use them for ondura or lexan or fiberglass.

Your local store who delivers may well be as inexpensive as anyone, and the pieces will come off the truck all nicely banded together and straight.  Not to mention the right amount, color, and length, since they ordered it for you based on what you told them--that is if you told them right.

Or, use people who do nothing but install metal roofs.  Sometimes since they can buy roofing a lot cheaper than you can, and they will take so much less time, it comes out worth it or even a draw as to price.

Offline Micky

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Re: Metal Roof Questions
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2006, 12:52:39 PM »
We used a 5 rib metal roof on the cabin we are building.  A friend and I were able to put it up in 1 day.   Our pitch is a 12/12 which was very steep to work on.

I used 15/32” OSB instead of purlins.  The sheets were harder to install (I did this from inside the cabin until I got to the top row) but felt it made for a more solid roof.

I think this picture explains how we installed it without being able to walk on the roof.  It actually worked pretty well.

 Notice I was wearing a safety harness.  This is a requirement and the best $150 I spend on the whole project.


Instead of roofing felt we used a product called Titanium-UDL.  http://interwrap.com/Titanium-UDL/titanium-index.html .  This was great stuff.  Much lighter than felt and does not tear.

I would not have any hesitation using a metal roof again.  The two biggest reasons we chose metal is because we get a lot of snow and it should last longer.

Offline ki4hpz

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Re: Metal Roof Questions
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2006, 01:06:28 PM »
How much space between the insulation and metal roof for moisture control?

Offline Billy Bob

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Re: Metal Roof Questions
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2006, 02:45:48 PM »
Spot on, Amanda.
The panels I bought for my Mom's porch the big box guys couldn't even price  out at first.  I think I recall it was delivered to the house by the local lumber yard just about the time I got a call back from the BB boys with a considerably higher price.
The black eyes story? Priceless!

Again, Mike, no need to defend the neighbor.  I seem to recall seeing metal roofs along the coast of Maine, for what it's worth.

Great picture, Micky, worth more than the traditional 1,000 words.
Bill

Offline Amanda_931

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Re: Metal Roof Questions
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2006, 06:17:41 PM »
Looks a lot safer than what we did.

And basically doable by an ordinary human.

Offline Jimmy C.

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Re: Metal Roof Questions
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2006, 07:44:03 AM »
I came across this picture while searching for metal roofs.

It looks kinda like the two story universal.

The hardest part is getting past the mental blocks about what you are capable of doing.
Cason 2-Story Project MY PROGRESS PHOTOS

Offline nandajor

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Re: Metal Roof Questions
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2006, 11:11:23 AM »
Hi Jimmy. Being in your "neck of the woods", down here out of Frankston, I would say, metal roof is great.  I posted a pic. earlier of our present home. It has a dark green metal roof, 26 gauge, and our strips were 24" wide. In general, the very dark colors cost a little more. House is over two years old now. We purchased from F.E. Sawyer, on the loop in Tyler. I think they are moving operations, so I am not sure where on the loop, at this time. We did install decking underneath and tar paper.  If I remember right, different climates require different applications, due to moisture and "sweating". The hubby did do the install, a big 70' x 40' roof.  Even though the strips were not very wide, they were pretty heavy and hard to handle. We locked down vice grips on the end, tied a rope to the grips and J. pulled it up. Worst problem, (aside from the un-godly summer heat) was it got very slick and that ridge is a far piece UP.  We ended up, tieing a rope around J.'s waist and securing it to a tree on the opposite side of the house.  It acted as safety and I also could get on that side and help pull him up the roof. Not one of the easier jobs that we have tackled. I would say, be very careful, but it is do-able.  Have no complaints about the endurance of the metal roof.  

Offline scottb

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Re: Metal Roof Questions
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2006, 09:30:42 PM »
With wood decking under metal, you put insulation upto the wood. Metal with ridges vents itself. A very steep roof may not collect much snow but all metal roofs should have some snow guards. One sunny day all the snow and ice will fall on someone! I  think it would be easy to attach metal strips along the lower part of roof between a screw head and gasket, not between the gasket and metal panel.

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Re: Metal Roof Questions
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2006, 06:24:34 AM »
Thanks for that photo Micky

Well worth 1,000 words. Looks like a pro level crew you have there.  :)

DemianJ

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Re: Metal Roof Questions
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2006, 08:30:20 AM »
Micky,

Your picture does make it look doable.  And I wish I'd done more research on the underlayment (I spent too much time researching walls and not enough on the roof).  I ended up just using the 15lb felt the building supply company included with the package and after 3 weeks of exposure (due to the roofer's broken truck), it doesn't look like the felt will do much good if there's a leak.  Also, I wish I'd know  that thicker roofing (26 gauge) was available for just a little bit more.  Guess that's one of the downsides of bidding the suppliers off of one another; they list you the cheapest stuff.  I told the guy I wasn't trying to be that cheap; guess I should have done more researh.

DemianJ

glenn-k

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Re: Metal Roof Questions
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2006, 05:43:13 PM »
I have done some work with 29 gauge metal roof - lighter of course but still worked.  Some of the lighter stuff is also a tougher grade of steel.